Dia Bondi 00:00
Do you earn Certified Energy leadership mastery practitioner? What is that? It's sort of a measurement of a person's energy levels. I wonder where I am baby. I'm like, I'm like a 12 on a scale of one to 10 I mean, you definitely you go from like a one to like a 15 sometimes in the middle of a podcast
Hey everyone, welcome to the Deobandi show a big huge podcast for your goals. I'm dia Bondi longtime leadership, communications coach and catalyst and creator project, ask like an auctioneer. We are here with this podcast to help you speak powerfully to advance your leadership and your ventures and your careers. Get more of what you want, by asking for more and getting it. And I am joined as always by my fave Baby A. Hey, do you always take like a little pause? hadiah right there. Yeah, well creates a little suspense. What's great, I always do but then I cut it out in the edit. There you go. Oh, sir. Don't know what you're talking about. Hello. Okay. So listen, today, we're gonna have Caroline Custer young on the show. She's a corporate escape artist, you know how many women I talked to who are in the process of escaping their corporate lives, dreaming about escaping their corporate lives? Some of you listening are like, No, I love it in here. It works perfectly. For me, that makes so much sense. And for others of you who might be realizing I gotta get out, it's time for a change. This episode is going to be for you. She is a career coach. And she is the corporate escape artist.com and a writer and a coach. And I can't wait to talk to her. But first, I'm going to share. Yeah, what's going on? So I'm taking you know this, and I can't remember if we've shared with the audience, but I've been having some strain in my voice this last couple of years, actually. And spend some time looking for some help with it. And finally found a coach and she is a singing teacher actually. Right. We I think we did talk about it briefly. And we've talked about it Off mic. But But yeah, tell me what's going on. How's the singing lessons going? It's so it's hard for me to sing. You know, one of my old mentors said we can't ask our clients to do something, we're not willing to try ourselves. And when she said, I know, I'm not here to help you sing, but we're going to use singing to address some of the issues going on with your voice and the delivery of your you know, the words that come out of your mouth. She brought brought her she brings her ukulele to our session. And she's like, Nope, we're going to do some singing. And so I think about all the clients that I work with in my communications work where I help make them try stuff that feels uncomfortable. I'm like, oh, yeah, this is how it feels. So in that sense, it's really it's a good practice for me and grows my empathy bones to be, you know, receiving coaching in this way. That's cool. It's really cool. And so I'm singing an old folk song. And, but what's really interesting is she. So she's an opera. She's classically trained, and as an opera singer, and also just a music teacher. And one thing I learned last week is that I do a lot of glottal stops when I talk. Well, for sure, right off the bat, she was like, okay, not a lot of vowels, you have a lot of consonants. And it's true that I use consonants like, I don't know, like, I use consonants like seasoning, you know, it's like where I just like I use it to spice things up to emphasize things like it's where my focus is, actually, when I talk, and she's, and she's like, you don't need them so much. You're so over rotated on them, you can actually we need to start practicing opening your throat, and breathing and using your vows. So that's why singing is turning out to be the right focus area, because singing happens in the vowels, not in the consonants. So that's very interesting. But the glottal stops, which is like, for folks listening, it's like, you a glottal stop is like where you close your throat before you start saying a word like, and it's unnecessary. So instead of just opening your mouth and letting air come through your throat and saying Apple, Apple, I would say, Apple, where I close my throat and almost start as a as a consonant. Ah, right. So it's not have to come off the mic to do it, but to say something more like apple instead of app instead of Apple. Instead of Apple. It's apple, right? Uh huh. And glottal stops
Arthur 05:00
In the middle of words to write where they are, but I, I use so many of them. It's no wonder my neck, my throat, and the back of my soft palate feels beat up all the time, especially after I give a long workshop. Yeah. Huh. So we're doing these crazy. Sorry, I interrupted you, what were you gonna say? Oh, no, I was just gonna say I, I think of the glottal stops as being in the middle of words where you're, you're sort of inferring a consonant without making your lips make one like you might say, intermittent. Yeah, that's a glottal stop. Yeah, intermittent but but what is unnecessary, and yes, and it's unnecessary the beginning of a word all the time that starts with a vowel. So we're sort of practicing keeping well for one breathing into my back ribs, and then keeping my throat open as I move from as I move from vowel to vowel. And it's so interesting, she's telling me to use she said, Just say real words. You don't have to make words, just say real words.
Dia Bondi 06:04
And even in singing, you know, singing as a place to get to it, because she works. We're singing this old country him. And, you know, there's a lot of even vowel sounds that in the singing, I'm making really hard, like depth songs where I focus more on the Wi Fi. And she's like, No, it's just a way it's not a way. So she's, it's a really interesting thing to hear myself differently. And I get worried that if I'm focusing more on vows, smoothing everything out and just simply transacting words, instead of performing them, especially when I'm giving a keynote or a workshop, that my intention isn't coming through. And she is like, she's telling me like, there's no way dia that your intention can't come through. But we can, we can let you soften how your, your throat works and delivers words. So that you can have more ease for yourself, and you can actually draw your audience in instead of going to them so hard. She's like, you don't have to work so hard. Right? Yeah. Yeah, I never really thought of that. I mean, I, I took voice lessons when I was younger, mostly just in the form of being in you know, singing classes, like choir or jazz chorus or something. But I did have a little bit of individualized instruction, here and there. But it was when I was a kid, we didn't get super advanced with it. Yeah, it's very interesting. In you know, for folks listening, I'm taking these voice lessons to address something that feels physical and, and, and to cool my intensity a little bit when I'm in front of the room, because I am working so hard and stressing my voice and body out. But it's also a little bit meta, because as all of us change, we move into new behaviors, new ways of using our voice, new ways of talking about our work, you know, new ways of leading others new ways of showing up that grow our range, it can sometimes be a little disorienting, because we're experiencing ourselves a little differently than we're used to experiencing ourselves. And I can feel that disorientation a little bit when, when I'm doing when I'm practicing the things I need to practice that give my voice relief. And actually, I'm still effective, but it's not used. It's not how I'm used to hearing myself, and for my instructor to say, no, no, you're still totally present, you still sound like DHEA even though the sensation of it feels so different is something to really feel into. So, you know, today's conversation with our guests, we're talking about folks who are ready to make a big change in their lives. And I know, you know, change and, and you know, whether you're moving from a corporate job to a solopreneur role, or you're going from in house to freelance or, you know, I'm leveling up in my own business, we end up having to actually see ourselves differently. And that can disorient for a little while until that normalizes So, folks, you're not alone.
Arthur 09:05
If you are into what we're doing here on the D Bondi show, there are a lot of ways that you can help support the program. You can like, subscribe, rate, and review on your favorite podcast app. And that will help us reach more people. You can do the old fashioned way by telling your friends about it or the new fashioned way, share it on social media. The other thing that you can do is help us find guests that matter to you. If there's somebody you want to hear from who you think could be a great match for a show. Please send us a note and make the introduction at hello@deobandi.com. That's right. And you can send us any suggestions or questions by email or you can give us a call at 341-333-2997
Dia Bondi 09:50
Okay, so today we're going to hear from Caroline Kastri. On who is our guest on our show. She is a career and life coach and she helps people go from soul sucking jobs that they want really are over to a career of fulfillment. She is founder of corporate escape artist. And after making the leap in her own life to entrepreneurship Following the success of 25 years in corporate in the corporate environment, she has just she says she's just never looked back. So prior to corporate escape artists, she's had executive leadership roles at firms that you might recognize, like Dell, and Sony. She's a certified professional coach, and an energy leadership index Master Practitioner. And don't think that I don't want to know what that is. Because I do. She's a contributor to Forbes Thrive global and been featured in publications like The New York Times entrepreneur, Inc, and Success Magazine. So happy to have her today. So Caroline, thank you so much for being with us today. I'm so happy. It's such a bizarre thing to me that we're having this conversation now. Because you were the first person to write about project as like an auction air?
Caroline Castrillon 11:00
I can't believe that. Yeah, I can't believe that. I just loved Yeah, I loved your your message. And it was just such a unique point of view. And then when we spoke, I just felt like we kind of clicked you know, our energies.
Dia Bondi 11:14
That's right. And I, you are you were the first you were the one that who said like dia, this is going to be a book. And we are in the process of finalizing the proposal now to go shop it to publishers. So you'll be the first to know when when that's actually happening. So it's true that we did have some energy on that first call. And I was looking, again, just reviewing your bio, and you are a certified energy leadership mastery practitioner, what is that?
Caroline Castrillon 11:41
So I went through a certification program through a school called AIPAC and that's sort of their they're an assessment that they use, and it basically is, it's sort of a measurement of a person's energy levels and sort of where you're at today, it's provides a baseline. So when you start working with a client, and then you work with them for a few months, you can do another check in and kind of see, you know, where they're
Dia Bondi 12:09
at, like, if they have more energy, or less energy, how do you use that in the coaching that you do?
Caroline Castrillon 12:15
There's different energy levels, like, for example, when we're, when we're sad, in our people who are depressed, that's kind of like a, like a one or a two, like, at the, at the low end of the scale. Now, if you're somebody who expressed who's more of experiencing more anger, that's like, still at the low end, but a little like a level up from that. And then, you know, as you progress, it's kind of like, you know, you start seeing the world in a different way, like when you see situations in terms of a win win instead of this is mine, you know, I take this away from you kind of thing, it's, it's, it's an even higher energy level. So
Dia Bondi 13:00
you use like energy assessments to to notice in your coaching, how where you go next with a client or whether what you're talking about is having a shift.
Caroline Castrillon 13:12
Yeah. So where they're at today, and then you know, how the coaching is progressing? Moving forward.
Dia Bondi 13:17
I wonder where I am, baby. I'm like, I'm like a 12 on a scale of one to 10.
Arthur 13:22
I mean, you definitely you go from like a one to like a 15. Sometimes in the middle of a podcast
Dia Bondi 13:28
I do somewhere in the middle of the podcast. I know. And actually, we were talking about before you jumped into the, into the recording, Caroline that I'm taking some voice lessons to address a voice strain that I have. And my I'm actually taking lessons from a from a singer singing lessons to address talking issues. And she's like, Yeah, you can bring it way down. Do you actually work? Down? So yeah,
Arthur 13:54
I mean, you you she just got this new mic that we're using on the podcast, and we did a mic check earlier in the week just to make sure everything was good. And I was like, Okay, now give me your that's really interesting. Yeah, give me your Hey, everybody. It's a DIA Body Shop.
Dia Bondi 14:07
Yeah. What is a corporate escape artist
Caroline Castrillon 14:12
so well, that that name came from my own experience? And basically, it's, it's me so it's somebody who decided that that the status quo was worse than the thought of change. So I'd been the way I like to tell my story is I I followed the rules. You know, I did what I thought I was supposed to do. I went to a good school, got a good job, you know, try to climb the corporate ladder. But the higher I climbed, the more money I made, the more unhappy I felt. And I knew something was wrong. When I got the last job I had in the corporate world was a VP position and it was an awesome job. I mean, I was like a great team. We had all these perks more money than I'd ever earned before it was close to home. I I got all kinds of, you know, benefits and my family was like thrilled. And I just thought there's something wrong with this picture because I'm feeling really unhappy. And even before I started the job after I accepted the position, and so that's when I got a coach. Well, that right them, but a few months later, and that's when things started to shift when I started actually verbally acknowledging what I wanted to change, and, and then all of a sudden was like the universe. You know, it's one thing to think about doing something, it's another to actually put it out there and set a goal either, you know, writing it down, telling people about it, holding yourself accountable, and then it's like the universe conspires to help you make things happen. And that's what happened to me. So that's when I started down my coaching journey.
Dia Bondi 15:51
I do agree that it's one thing to sort of dream about something and, you know, paint a picture on your head. And it's another thing to get into action on that. And, you know, a lot of the folks that come across project as like an auctioneer, you know, we talk a lot about confidence. And so often, I don't know how your clients, you know, show up in this conversation, but I have a lot of in my communications work, also, folks really, feeling like confidence is a requirement to act. And actually, I found that confidence is an outcome of acting. But yes, and so how, like, what, and I have a question for you a little bit later around that because getting into action to me, I have a bias toward action. and I both want, you know, folks to have an experience in their, in the arc of their careers that feels like they are, you know, every step of the way and as often as possible in alignment with who they are. And that they're actually in a position where they can take action to move forward in alignment with who they are. So as you you know, our audience and your audience, I think I even on your, on your site, you talk about our high achieving professionals, and our audience is as well. So tell me a little bit about their experience, and what do you notice about them? And what struggles do they most often bring to you? What are some of the themes you notice? And what do they bring to you?
Caroline Castrillon 17:11
Well, recently, especially people are, you know reevaluating their their values and priorities, they obviously want more flexibility. fulfillments more important to them, the the things outside of salary. I mean, it's obviously money is still important, especially if they're the primary breadwinner, but all these other components are playing a greater level of importance in their lives, things like company culture, feeling appreciated at work. I have a client who she's happy with the money that she's making, but she knows that it's not what she's worth. And it's that's the piece that's missing, it's not the money in itself, it's the fact that she doesn't feel like she's being paid what she's worth. And most of my clients coming to me and are looking for Career Clarity, so they know they want to make a change, they're ready to do it, but they're not sure what direction to go in or how to approach it. And a lot of times, it's because they have been down a certain path for so long, they forgot what they enjoy doing, what they're good at, what people use to compliment the mind, what really lights them up inside, because they they're operating from their head and not their heart. And so that's the shift that I try to make with most of my clients. Or maybe not a shift but but more of a balance so that it's a balance between the head and, and the heart and encourage them to, you know, tap into their intuition and their gut instincts. Because if I had listened to my gut instinct, I probably wouldn't have taken that VP job. But I ignored it completely. I totally just analyzed it using my intellect and
Dia Bondi 18:55
for so the folks that you work with, if they're, if they're approaching him, or if they're trying to integrate, you know, get back into relationship with what's in their heart and integrate it with what's in their head, you know, because we're not we're not I'm, we're not encouraging, you know, illogical, you know, dangerous decision making, we're talking about integrated purposeful actions toward a more aligned, you know, set of fulfilling work. So, as folks integrate, you know, what do they what surprises them, like what kind of things do they realize that are a surprise to them? Is that something that you notice?
Caroline Castrillon 19:28
Yes. Right away because right away so one of the first exercises we go through is I just take them back to when they were young. You know what, what did you enjoy doing? What classes did you like to go to what? How did you spend your time you know, what did you do for fun? What did people compliment you on? What did what made you stand out? What made you unique? And as you as we grow into adulthood, a lot of times we all that stuff goes by the wayside because The things that we enjoy doing, we suddenly decide, well, what am I going to do with that? That's not practical. That's not, I can't make money doing that, you know, we just throw it, throw it away. And then we go down this different path. And then there are a lot of aha moments like, yeah, I forgot how much I enjoyed doing that, you know, I'm working with a doctor right now who's an infectious disease professional, and she has a passion for nutrition, and this is gonna, this is going way back into her childhood. And she wants to kind of, you know, make make a career pivot. And so when we started talking, she just realized, like, wow, yeah, I've had this interest ever since I was a kid. But I didn't pursue it because it just didn't seem prestigious enough. It didn't, you know, her father's a doctor. And it just it just so she ended up choosing what she described as the lesser of the evils so to speak, in the in the medical world. And she's really great at her job, but it's not something she's passionate about anymore. So
Dia Bondi 21:03
it's interesting that you point to what I hear. And that is that what folks might pursue like to see a path towards something more fulfilling is usually about recessed attaining something that's already there. It's not about like, I have to be someone else. It's actually you have to be more who you originate originally were, and are like it's in there. It's not. So like, you have to go find it out there. We have to actually look inward first.
Caroline Castrillon 21:29
Absolutely. That's the first step is like the self actualization phase, the self assessment, digging inside of yourself. That's the mistake a lot of people make they look outside of themselves for answers. They take tests, they go to therapists, they do, you know, they take classes, they get more certifications, more degrees, more of those four, that none of that, it's like, it's, it's all inside of you, and it's already there. But it's, it's like teasing it out. It's like peeling an onion, right? It's
Dia Bondi 21:57
not like it's not a skill, or a piece of information that is outside of your own, like your own realm. So when folks realize they want something different, what freaks them out, wealth,
Caroline Castrillon 22:10
fear, fear, all of the fears. So fear of failure, fear of, what are people gonna think, what if I make the wrong decision? The money always comes into play like I'm the primary breadwinner, so I can't take you know, any make any risky moves. I'm too old.
Dia Bondi 22:27
How do you? How do you? Yes? How do you address these? How do you address them? Because that can be a real that could feel like a cul de sac for folks. Yeah.
Caroline Castrillon 22:34
Well, you just address them one at a time. And you go through that dialogue of like, well, you're not too old. I mean, I so using me as an example, I changed careers in my 40s. And you don't have to take a big leap, you know, you could do it in stages. And so people assume that, you know, they, they jump 10 steps ahead, instead of one of my favorite closes, you don't have to see the whole staircase, just the next just take the next step. And that's one of the keys. If you look at the whole staircase, you're going to be totally overwhelmed. It's like climbing a mountain thinking about the, you know, the summit, when you do it, you know, little by little.
Dia Bondi 23:17
And if folks take the little steps, little by little, did they find that they end up at the top of the mountain? Or do they discover things along the this is a yes or no question. Bad question. But as they go, do they find that they actually, there's their next most important or next meaningful step or the next right step as they see and try to act in alignment with themselves actually takes them to the river or takes them somewhere else? Like do they? Do they go to the destination they think they were going to or do they end up somewhere else?
Caroline Castrillon 23:44
It depends on the person, sometimes they know where they want to go, but they're afraid to take that step. So they need somebody on the journey with other people don't know where they want to go. So they need help deciding on that destination and then breaking that down. That bigger goal down into small steps. So doesn't seem so daunting. So
Dia Bondi 24:05
as you as you talk about all the these sort of like, okay, if I know I want to get to the top of that mountain, or I know that I want to make a change, even if I don't know what it is, if I write down sort of all of my assumptions and beliefs and fears about it, to not bundle those together. But instead, folks who are listening could take that make that inventory and then just address one at a time. And when we're addressing those fears. What are we doing? Are we ask, Are we questioning them? Are we are we journaling? What are we doing to address them?
Caroline Castrillon 24:38
Well, one of the things you could ask yourself is what's the worst thing that could happen? And usually when I asked that question, they go, Well, I guess it just doesn't work out and I can do something else or go back to what I was doing before you know, it's not like like the world's gonna end. But it's in our minds. You know, once once you start write it, what I would encourage people to do is just write it down. Write, even if it's a simple like pros and cons list, you know, write down the fear and then try to determine, you know, what's, what's the worst thing that could happen. And also, you don't have to just blindly jump, you can take it in stages, and also have a backup plan, you know, just you can anticipate things like, well, if this happens, what I can do this,
Dia Bondi 25:25
what I love about what I love about that is that you're sort of recognizing how much choice you actually have in that, and that can really, you know, create a bit a stronger sense of agency for us. Like I actually, if x, then I have choices to do one of these three, four or five things, so that it's never completely out of our hands. I think also in the world of sort of career change, career fulfillment, there's so much narrative about, and then this hit me and then one day I did this thing, you know, because that's, those are fun, heroic stories to listen to. But if you dig underneath it, it's not always how it actually happens. It's a series, a collection of events, isn't it? I mean, Baby, what is it? You know, the Beatles? How many empty? How many empty shows did they play before? They made it big? 1000s? You know, it's a
Caroline Castrillon 26:13
10 year, overnight success? Yeah, to say, yes, the people don't see, you don't see the work that goes into it, you know, leading up to the big event. And, you know, we just see the sort of the end goal, the end result.
Dia Bondi 26:26
That's right. And we love that instigating story where everything changed. And you're right, it's the all those steps leading up to it. And that's kind of the heavy work, isn't it? Because it's we were taking micro actions that maybe don't have a super strong impact right away. But we have to keep our I mean, I know, in my growth of my own small business, like I have to, even though the winds are small, I have to sort of notice them and let them accumulate and think of it as a pile of pebbles instead of like one big rock, you know, exactly. So for silver folks who have like, like, today, somebody's listening to us in the car, they're going for a walk with their dog. And this is the week where they've said, oops, I think I want something different. Or I think I wanted something different for a long time. And I'm just now really realizing it's time to do something about it. It's time to get it's time to like, acknowledge it and like name it and claim it, which is something we like to do on the Deobandi show. What? What is somebodies? First thing to do the very first thing,
Caroline Castrillon 27:38
it's that self introspection piece, so take time out to decide, well, firstly, you want to know your why. Why do you want to make a change? Is it because you hate your boss? Do you hate your job? Do you hate the company you're working for? Is it your career? Is it your schedule? You know, it's like, what is it about your life or your job or your career that you want to change and why? Because that's very revealing, you know, if it's just if you love your career, but you hate your boss, then clearly, you know, you might want to find the same position or a better position at a different company, or try to look for another position in the same company, you know, there's, there's different ways to approach it. And then, and then take a step back, the biggest mistake people make is they want to get in action right away. So they start updating their resume and their LinkedIn profile. And all the while they don't know where they want to go, or what they want to do. So all that work that you're doing is just, it's, it's not going to help you go anywhere, because you first have to decide your destination before you know how to position yourself for that role. So getting into that place of self introspection, finding quiet time, you know, you have to get your mind, you know, find a finding that stillness of mind, in order to find clarity, that's really key. If you're anxious, and not sleeping, and you know, all of that, it's going to be really hard to find that clarity.
Dia Bondi 29:10
Sometimes when we, when we're starting to write a new story for ourselves about the future, a different, you know, we want the story about our lives to be different, either because we want to be you know, collaborating with other folks in a certain way we want to have, you know, we want to elevate inside of our organizations, we want to go into intrapreneurship we want, we want the story to be different, like what was important to us before is maybe less important to us now. And we have something new that's important to us and sort of waking up to that can take a little like, we're changing the narrative of our lives at that moment. So So for women who, you know, have told, you know, they have a story about their career, what it means and what's important to them, and now that's changing. How do they, you know, step away from that story they've been telling for so long and crazy. A new one without doubt. And without hesitation, well, it's a
Caroline Castrillon 30:05
process. It doesn't happen overnight, especially if you've been telling yourself the same story for a long time. But it's it's about changing your inner inner dialogue and talking to you, when I tell people is talk to yourself like you would your best friend, because a lot of times we talk to ourselves internally in ways that we would never talk to a friend, you know. So when they find themselves in a situation, I just reframe it and say, Well, if you were talking to your very best friend, what would you tell yourself? And kind of approach it that way. And just recognize that what you believe is what becomes reality. So it's, it starts with beliefs, and then it's, and then you start taking actions.
Dia Bondi 30:51
And at what point in the journey, do we, you know, let's imagine we've done that reflection, we've identified here's what, here's what I'm no longer willing to tolerate in my life. And in my career, here are the changes that I want to make whether it's, you know, a 180, and a completely different career or if it you know, iteration, a different iteration of my current, my current career, when we're when we recognize that and then we built, we said, like, Oh, I know, I want to go to the mountain, not the river, like we've identified sort of a goal. What is it time to start telling your community what you want is that is that a step in the process.
Caroline Castrillon 31:25
So what I tell people is early on in the process you want, you have to surround yourself with people who support you and are non judgmental and believe in you. Somehow, you actually have to find people that believe in you more than you believe in yourself. And don't necessary it, especially the bigger the goal, the less you want to tell people very, very early on, because it's like, at that point, it's kind of like this little infant that hasn't had time to grow yet, you know, and you've got to sort of protect it to some extent, because there's a lot of people that aren't going to get it, there's going to be people that are going to tell you, you're crazy, or you're too old, or, you know, who do you think you are? Or
Dia Bondi 32:06
right, like they're gonna offload their own fears and anxieties onto your dream.
Caroline Castrillon 32:11
Yeah, exactly. And so you got to watch out for that, because it's a reality. It's, it's, you know, staying away from what I call energy vampires and surrounding yourself with people that are really positive. And we'll support you in what you want to do and help hold you accountable as well,
Dia Bondi 32:29
right? I mean, there's a piece there where like, there's going to be a moment where you're going to have to fall in love with your dreams and stand up for them in a way that nobody else will, once you kind of know what they are. And, and you know, in my work around project as like an auctioneer I talked about, like, if you're going to ask for the things you need to resource, the dream that you've articulated for yourself, you have to let your dreams be known to the people who can actually do that. So that the asks that you make the support, you're asking for the resources, you need the opportunities to step on stages, the chance to author something that all lives in a context for people, so they understand what they're saying yes to what it's allowing you to create. And when they get to be part of that, you end up having a less of a transactional conversation with the people around you and more. Like they're actually getting to participate in your fulfilment. And I find that to be a much more fruitful conversation and request for support from your community.
Caroline Castrillon 33:26
Yeah, and so later in the process, like when I launched my business, that's when you want to call everybody, and email everybody and and tell your friends and your friends, friends and your your hairdresser and the person at the post office, you know, like, that's when you really want to blast, blast your your message out there.
Dia Bondi 33:48
I agree. I think that there's so much to be said for and this is hard, especially for folks. And this is hard for me, I'm somebody who's very self determinant. And you know, I have that little like, I do it myself, I got it, you know, and it's not true. I don't got it. And I can't do it myself. And so sort of putting, it's also a risk to tell people what you want. Because when you tell people what you're admitting you want it. And if you don't get it, there's some vulnerability in that. But I think that that a colleague of mine says that what what you start making isn't always what you end up making. And you could say you it's okay for us to say we want to make a career change, have sort of a picture of what it might look like and have it not work out the way you originally planned, but have it still work out in a way that satisfy the the why that you articulated in the beginning, like you mentioned, it's okay to update people along your pathway and help them stay abreast of your changing picture too, isn't it?
Caroline Castrillon 34:41
Absolutely. It's not a it's not a straight line. It's a really curly. You know, I don't know if you have seen these these images like on Instagram and Pinterest and stuff where it's like, this is what success looks like. It's not a straight line. It's like a really curly convoluted You know kind of thing because you're, it's because it's sort of like sailing, you know, you're tacking this way and tacking that way. And the way that's
Dia Bondi 35:06
a beautiful way to say,
Caroline Castrillon 35:07
yeah, the winds change, and you've got to adapt and be flexible. And that's okay. It's not you don't have to, necessarily, like you said, you know, things can change, you don't have to stick with whatever it is that your you said, your goal was initially, if it changes, it changes, you know,
Dia Bondi 35:25
I love that. And I would offer that's a really beautiful way to sort of complete this call around this idea of tacking. So I'd offer folks who are listening like, what's your next tack? You know, you're moving maybe toward the beach on the other side of the lake. But what's your what's your next tack? Is it that direction? Is it that direction? Is it a steep angle? Is it a shallow angle? Knowing that you don't have to be over there already, but to ask yourself, What's my next little move? That gets me a little closer to the thing that I want? Mm hmm. Exactly. Caroline? How can people find you I know, they can read you publish on Forbes and a few other publications. So let people know where they can read your stuff, and where they can find you and what you're offering them?
Caroline Castrillon 36:06
Yeah, so probably the easiest way is corporate escape artist.com. That's my website. And then I'll tell you all about me and my my background and everything. And I also write at the by article on Forbes that people can go to as well. And I wanted to offer you know, anybody who's listening that would like a one hour coaching session with me, if you're looking for Career Clarity, you're thinking about making a career change. You're you know what you want, but you're afraid to make the change. You're not sure how to get there, and you want to have a partner on that journey with you. I would love for them to reach out to me and I'd be happy to
Dia Bondi 36:46
do that. Excellent. Thank you so much for being with us. Carolina.
Caroline Castrillon 36:49
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Dia Bondi 36:58
Okay, so corporate escape artist.
Arthur 37:00
Yeah. Pretty interesting.
Dia Bondi 37:02
I love that term. By the way. I think there's so many folks that I talked to who literally feel like they're trying to escape, right? Like they are trapped. Oh, yeah. And I just, I mean, I've had moments in my life where that has been a really significant feeling, you know, and I don't, you know, I don't work directly with folks who feel that stuck. Um, but I come across it sometimes. And I just, I don't know, how you dislodge. I mean, the times in my life where I've felt that stuck. The way I've gotten out, is probably the way that Caroline would say, don't do it that way. It's delete, literally just pull the plug,
Arthur 37:46
right. Yeah, I don't have any experience, even working full time in corporate ever. I've been freelancing for like, 15 years. And before that, I worked at like record stores and played music and stuff. So well,
Dia Bondi 38:00
you've had those experiences with your corporate clients, though, that have felt, you know, projects that have felt like you wanted to escape? Yes. The beauty is, is that they have a timeline on them. Right? You're like, you know, it's gonna end
Arthur 38:12
exactly. I know, when I know when my, my escape time is. Yeah, yeah,
Dia Bondi 38:16
exactly. You know, when the hatch is going to open, but I think for a lot of folks, you know, that's not true. And there there is, there are a lot of trappings that they feel inside of that experience, that it's not just like, oh, when this is over, then it'll change or that'll it's like, it's just in general, feeling trapped. Like there's a million doors that they're locked, that are locked, you know, keeping them where they are. Yeah. And I just, I can appreciate that considerably. What I liked about what she pointed out in the conversation was was when she was sharing around, you know, identify really clearly what is it that needs to change? Is it your entire career? Is it the job description you have is that you want to work for another boss? Is it financial, because you may want to do do it the DIA Bondy way, which is to just like pull the entire plug, when really there's only one component that needs to be shaped differently for you to feel less trapped. So you don't have to actually throw everything out the window, just certain parts are broken. I think, you know, looking at that is a great way for folks who are listening, if you are one of those folks who feel just that trapped, to start to identify what specifically about your situation or the things that need to change. And maybe you'll find you need to do the Deobandi version and just pull the plug, maybe you'll find that you can make some small changes that change everything. Yeah, so
Arthur 39:38
you can quit corporate cold turkey, or there's the little little things you can do.
Dia Bondi 39:43
Exactly. Those little things can make a big, big difference. I think. I find that even in you know, when I'm doing curriculum design, or I'm doing something, you know, you and I worked on a bunch of creative projects, like if something's not working, it doesn't mean it's whole hog not working. It could just mean that like oh, You know, if we start the script right here, how does that change? It does that all of a sudden make it work? So there's all these like little keys, I think that we can explore across our lives that can make a difference if we, if we engage them. So it was great having having Caroline with us today. And as usual, Arthur, it's so lovely to hear you and see you,
Arthur 40:22
as always. All right, we'll see you next time.
40:28
This podcast is a production of Dia Bondi communications scored makes em produced by Baby A. You can like share rate and subscribe at Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. If you would like my mom de Bondi to answer any questions about how to make your next big move, call us and leave your question at 341-333-2997 Thanks for listening
